Comments
- Buderus
Best oil boiler on the market for the price. - my true opinion
Buderus is what has got me away from using weil mclains and if people had the money I would install viessmans, but Buderus is excellent and love installing them
I just cant bring myself to buy one. Why buy a boiler made in another country? Also I just dont like boilers without inspection doors. I know that they need to be set up with instruments but I like to be able to check the fire with my own two eyes. Plus after the customer has reset in a bunch of times its nice to be able to burn off the excess oil with the door open. I will stick to Burnham, WM, and Peerless- Buderus
Dan the Buderus is a great oil boiler, quiet & efficient. A good investment, no matter what Al says. EJW - go the distance
Al you should go the distance and set up a boiler with instruments, not to be rude, but all boilers at least oil shall be set up that way, the extra hour isnt going to kill you but will cut your profit a bit i guess. Buderus has been around for over 200 years in europe and almost 12 in the US. Let me ask what typoes of cars do you drive? is it american, are all your tools american? probobly not, I knocked buderus till I installed my first one, great piece of equipment
I think of Buderus as the Highland Park 15 y.o. of single malt scotch. Terrific quality and taste for an excellent $$$ value.- You don't need
to burn off excess oil with a Buderus boiler. Open the door and wipe it out.
And if you use a Riello burner they have to hit the reset 9 times to equal a primary control that locks out after 45 seconds of puking oil in the chamber.
Ford & Chevy trucks and Snap On and Craftsman tools. I do know how to set up a boiler with instruments Its just a personal preferance thing. Again I wont buy foreign burners when the Carlin is just as good if not better. I owned one foreign car in my whole life. I wont buy another. Again it's just personal preferance. That boiler might be the best thing since sliced bread but it would have to be the only boiler left in the supply house before I buy one. Don't take me the wrong way I just buy American when I can.- 0·Share on Google+
We do not use oil burners in the Denver area. But when you compare a basic Buderus gas burner to any basic American boiler, there is a marked difference. Much more cast iron, heavier jacket, and much more insulation. I can buy a Buderus boiler for less than I can buy a Burnham. I had to use a Weil McLain the other day just because it was smaller and would fit in the closet. If I am not using a condenser, my first choice is the big German blue one.
Here is 2 Buderus boilers fitted with Carlin gas burners. I used these before the condensers became popular. You can pipe the fresh air right to the burner. The second photo is what we replaced.
Dave in Denver0·Share on Google+- Dave what did you get
for a combustion analysis on those boilers with the Carlin Burners if you don't mind me asking??? - well..
nice work Dave..I do like Buderus boilers too..and your points are well taken as to why many like them..BUT it appears that at long last Burnham & Weil are getting on board (before they lose lots of the market) we will see how well on board in a couple of months..If they can offer the same great featurs and a competitive price many will return to them..kpc
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in 'Find A Professional' - I like the Blue boyz *~/:)
by riello burner for them and tigerloop combo..BF Riello is an option in certain instances ....i have been wondering about the availability of my slant fins this year so i have opted to buy 6 buderas early which is actually la ~te now..really i was looking at the intrepids with riellos I just like slant fins as irrational as that may sound..
Hi Tim, It has been a couple of years since I set these up so I do not remember all the readings. I do remember that it is possible to get the CO practicaly to zero but we had problems with hard light offs at this altitude. We adjusted the CO to about 25 ppm by restricing the air intake. It makes for a much smoother light off. On this job we had a flue height of about 45 ft. and had real good draft. These boilers have removable baffles inside and with the Carlin burners they have to be removed so there is less back pressure against the burners. On this job we did not because of the great draft. I talked to a Carlin rep. one time and he was surprised that we were using these burners in these boilers. He said these burners were designed to fire into big wide open chamber with no back pressure. I don't know, we have many of these installed and have no, I mean no problems. Not one call back. These burners are so quite. Unlike some Reilo's that you can hear from the street when you pull up to the house. The problem is the Carlin's will only do 180,000 Btu's. On this job we have to do 2 stagged boilers. The house was built in 1920 just after the big flu. The radiators are all SO big. We were able to cut the boiler size and gas input drastically. Check out this big radiator.
Dave in Denver0·Share on Google+- you could try opening our door
the burner door swings open so you can check for excess oil. kinda makes it easy to clean unlike some of the others. - 12 years??
Buderus has been here 12 years? Uh, try like 25 years. I installed one in 1984. Anyway, I think there are alot of good boilers out there. I feel there are some American boilers just as good as Buderus. However, a Buderus is superior to any pin boiler. Also, I think it is better than the other popular euro boiler, the Crown Freeport.
Forgive me for returning to the original question, but.. no matter who you ask, people seems to be convinced that Viessmann is the greatest boiler since sliced bread, but when it comes to Buderus, suddenly everybody has their own opinion about Buderus vs Crown vs American made. Tell me, what accounts for this rabid impartiality for the Viessmann on the one hand, but incredible choosiness when it comes to Buderus? They are both great boilers!!!
> Ford & Chevy trucks and Snap On and Craftsman
> tools. I do know how to set up a boiler with
> instruments Its just a personal preferance
> thing. Again I wont buy foreign burners when the
> Carlin is just as good if not better. I owned
> one foreign car in my whole life. I wont buy
> another. Again it's just personal preferance.
> That boiler might be the best thing since sliced
> bread but it would have to be the only boiler
> left in the supply house before I buy one. Don't
> take me the wrong way I just buy American when I
> can.- Made in America??
> Ford & Chevy trucks and Snap On and Craftsman
> tools. I do know how to set up a boiler with
> instruments Its just a personal preferance
> thing. Again I wont buy foreign burners when the
> Carlin is just as good if not better. I owned
> one foreign car in my whole life. I wont buy
> another. Again it's just personal preferance.
> That boiler might be the best thing since sliced
> bread but it would have to be the only boiler
> left in the supply house before I buy one. Don't
> take me the wrong way I just buy American when I
> can. - My first boiler
was a Buderus back in the 80's. Installed it for one of my high school friends and it was my first hybrid system (radiant in the basement, radiators on the first floor, hydroair w/ air conditioning for the upper floors and an indirect water heater) and it's still absolutely fine, working all this time with no problems.
Sorry, but I have not had such good luck with American boilers. And please, don't call me un-American just because I said that.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in 'Find A Professional' - The Difference
There is a difference between V & B boilers, Dan. Viessmann sits at the top with a comprehensive product line and several hundred more engineers doing R&D than Buderus. Since Buderus has been purchased by Bosch, you can expect greater engineering input and hopefully more R&D. Viessmann makes all its components and designs in-house. (Solar tubes excepted) It is a privately held company. The design differences are often subtle, but very apparent to experienced boiler technicians. The steel fabrication is also different between the companies. Buderus is a 'competitive' German boiler and has less 'bells & whistles'. These differences between products can only be discovered by installing several of each model and attending the training seminars given by the Mfg. If you're able to sell at a higher pricepoint, than Viessmann should pose no issues to the argument 'it cost too much..' Better (and best) costs more. If you're new to German boiler technology, than most contractors start with Buderus.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in 'Find A Professional' - Allow me to quibble..
I can think of more than just the Thermomax products when it comes to products that Viessmann rebadges, even in the US market. For example, to cover the lower end of the boiler market, they now offer the VitoRond (50?) with a Riello burner and US-only controls.
Then, when you go through their EU site, they offer all sorts of tasty things like PV systems, cogen systems, etc. that I doubt that they make a significant percentage of, other than the exterior shell.
I also recall the people at Viessmann to be quite upfront about buying licenses from other people for things like burner technology that they liked but had not developed in-house. This is a big step up from most companies who suffer from the dreaded NIH syndrome.
However, I do agree with the thrust of your argument, i.e. that Viessmann is a remarkably well-integrated company that produces a high percentage of the parts going into its products (on average). This probably accounts for why their products play as nice with each other as they do, and why their products feature many details that set them apart from the competition. - Noted
The Riello burner that comes with the Vitorond still says 'Riello'. Viessmann does not purchase other mfg's controls and 'brand' them. I suspect that their Cogen equip uses Man engines, but since I don't have access to that product line, it's not for me to comment.
My argument is to simply differentiate between the companies..which ain't so easy to make clear to those considering their products. Just because both companies are German, does not make them the 'same', and there are many differences in the product line and market approach.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in 'Find A Professional' - I couldn't agree more..
.. and it is this attitude that sets them apart from their competition worldwide.. and it is this attitude that allows them to value-price their products the way they do. My hat goes off to a company like Viessmann that knows how to sell the steak and the sizzle.
Hey Constantin. Just adding some info to let people know the following.
The competitive Viessamm oil fired boiler is the Vitorond 100 with a Becket NX burner.
The competitive gas fired unit is the Vitogas 050 ECD and ECV series.
Want an easy way to compare Buderus and Viessman. Viessmann has more depth, Buderus has better pricing as an entire line.
PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.
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I hear what you are saying about Viessmann's in-house manufacturing and vertical integration of products. But when all is said and done, what does Viessmann offer over Buderus for the average guy who needs a simple oil fired boiler to run an uncomplicated heating system with no radiant heat? My biggest concerns as a HO are fuel efficiency and longevity in that order, and as far as I can determine, Buderus oil fired boilers are just as excellent as Viessmann on both those counts, assuming the benefits of vertical product integration are not at play.- If..
fuel efficiency and longevity are your concerns, than the Vitola bi-ferral boiler with oil chassis burner and Vitotronic 200 control will outperform the Buderus. You'll pay more $$ than the Buderus setup, but gain 5-10% system efficiency. Those differences may take years to recover the original cost of equipment investment, but make sense as fuel costs rise. If cost is really the deciding factor then the Buderus system will be more appealing. The longevity of the equipment has as much to do with yearly maintainence, return water temps and boiler water chemistry as the quality of the casting or burner spec.
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I hate to get to the point, but what makes the quality of the Viessmann casting better than Buderus? How many more years of longevity on average am I going to get out of the Viessmann, as compared to a Buderus G215 with the built-in ability for low return temps, fired by a Riello burner, assuming that yearly maintenance is always properly performed? Isnt that the key data point? Are a couple of extra years on the Viessmann, if that is even the case, going to justify the higher cost? I have still not found any case for the Viessmann over Buderus in the simple average application, other than the fact that professionals admire its artfulness.
The point I was making is that there is little difference when it comes to simple systems and boilers. Veissmann excells with the high end stuff. But even with radiant and high end heating systems, I rarely need to use Viessmann. Buderus is more than adequate.
PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in 'Find A Professional'- Thanks for the clarification, Ted!
I'm sorry that I got the burner wrong on the VitoRond. Considering that we both attended the same introduction to Viessmann products class, I should take this as a signal to start taking Gingko..
As for the Viessmann vs. the Buderus debate, I cannot comment intelligently on how much each boiler will save a homeowner. As with all such questions, a lot probably depends on the particular system. For example,- The inherently shock-proof design of a Vitola makes it ideal for low temp, radiant heating applications. Yes, the Buderus can approximate the same thing with pump logic, but that's an additional pump, extra kWh, etc., but its not nearly as elegant a solution as the biferral design.
- Similarly, the ACEEE has published up to 8x lower electrical energy consumption numbers for the Vitodens than of the competition.
- Viessmann also offers other options like the flue gas temperature sensor that are a great feature for oil boilers.. a foolproof way to detect sooting.
- I also like how the Vitotronic 200 is already set up to accept future upgrades.. like hi/low burners, modulating burners, etc. The Vitotronic 200 also offers tons of ways to adjust the reset curves, etc.
- Michal..
Do you really like working for free? Come to work for me, I can keep you busy..
I have a place on my estimation spread sheet where I plug time in for commisioning. I also charge to educate the HO on how to operate their system. NOTHING is free, and NO ONE should be working for free. The only thing that I give away is simple advise, and thats a part of the education process. Everyone else pays.
I like the big blue German boiler. It's our primary line. We also deal in the big V as well.
Great products, and great support. A person can't tie themsleves to one individual ine any more without seriously limiting their marketing capability. And as for allegiance to American made products, unless you only work for union employed people, you will be SERIOUSLY limiting your abilities. Look at the vehicles they have at their home, and the appliances inside. Are there any televisions still made in the US of A?
I used to be on the other side of the fence, only dealing in American built products. I'd tell people, 'You don't really want to buy that German crap do you? It takes 6 weeks to get parts for those boilers, and you can't find anyone to work on them..' Then, I went to work for a company that only deals in European boilers, and boy, was I WRONG. The gas trains are Honeywell (American) and I have YET to replace a block on one. Even if I needed to, there are enough in stock on this side of the pond that I wouldn't have to wait the 6 weeks I used to threaten people with..
Times, they are a changin'.
Hope I don't offend to many people. That was not my intention.
ME - boiler
This post is to long and my attention span to short to read it all but if I grabbed the jist of it I believe this gentleman would like the differences between oil fired V vs. oil fired B. PP ive noticed posts a lot about Viessmann so I was surprised to read the comment(s) subtle differences and etc... To me if we are talking oil the VB2 is it.Of course V offers the sectional as well but with the VB2 why use any other so lets see about the subtle differences being brief as possible.
1) overall design nothing that compares.
2) Peak efficiency in seconds due to stainless steel fire chamber. heat transfer blah blah blah
3) No low limit restriction 'No' 'NONE'
4) Huge water waterways.
5) cylindrical design with taps entering in the middle of the donut so all system air 'if pumping away' gets back to the boiler. has no choice but float to top of cylinder and be released by air vent on safety header (which is also a great feauture. when installed in a replacement situation if any sediment, crap whatever gets back to the boiler its at the base. flame is in the middle IT NEVER LOSES EFFICIENCY.
6) two sets of taps and out the back. Cool! now i can stick my verticell (what other tank would you use?thats another run on comparison on its own)right next to the boiler have very little piping, very little stand by loss, not pulling any heat through the heating side or header at all.
7)lets use an average boiler size say 150,000 out the VB2 has 37 gallons as opposed to what 8. yes 37g's long burn cycles at peak efficiency$$ then of for long periods of time. a lot less cycles which means what, a lot less wear and tear.
8) put jacket and insulation on after you carry it in and plumb it, no worry about damage getting it in. dont have to hear electricians and whoever else say it wasnt me who stepped on your boiler. The amount of insulation and ease of installing the jacketry should be one point in itself. dont forget that boiler stand, great set of legs and way up firm and high.
9) how about that secondary filter they provide and tiger loop pretty cool huh.
10) controls there isnt enough time for that one. can you say KM Bus DIGITAL and oh yeah who makes there mixing valves and motors (the best in the business) oh yeah they do. plug in self diagnostic through control oh yeah.
11)if none of those subtle differences are enough i got three words for you Vi to flame ok one word but there is nothing more dependable, easier to service or better burning than this I can assure you and guess what it only fits the VB2 by VIessmann.
12) oh yeah since i said service how about that huge easy to open swing door and ss fire chamber that pops right out and isnt a kicker when you go back year after year and its still burning perfectly and almost nothing to clean, bummer
THere are more subtle differences however who has the time. I gots to go and install me some biferral's. - Alan That Attachment looks American! *~/;)
isnt that an old monkey wards? i have one stashed in the yard ..one day i am going to sand blast and enamel it for a center piece in my living room, ..how can i get the attachment of yours for future reference when i go to plumb it ? - Hate to burst your bubble,
But the alleged superiority of the V over anything; is pure marketing - period.
It is so good you actually believe that marketing - and embrace it.
Madison Avenue exists; it was perfeceted in Deutschland however. The marketing budget of Viessmann is probably 10 times the R&D budget. Whether or not their product is superior is debateable. One cannot question their superiority in marketing.
They are without question the absolute very best - period.
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in 'Find A Professional' - Ken,
Since you seem to have such a detailed knowledge of Viessmann's SG&A and R&D spending, I would appreciate if you could post them. If you don't have a breakdown of their marketing vs. R&D costs, I'd like to know how you arrived at your 10x number. In many manufacturing environments, SG&A eats up 20-30% of the gross income, with R&D in the 5-9% range, though it varies by industry, and there are many other things in the SG&A expenses pot besides marketing.
As best as I can tell, the Vitola has some unique features and accessories that set it apart from the competition. Can the Buderus control logic drive a modulating oil burner or monitor a flue gas sensor? I can't tell because the publicly-available documentation on the Buderus USA web-site is incomplete or missing. To be fair, the publicly-available information on Viessmann's site is also a lot less detailed than the stuff found in their private site area.
However, there are more areas where Viessmann differentiates itself from the competition with the Vitola. For example, it would also be news to me that the G115 can be fed radiant floor heating return water temperatures without resorting to boiler protection via pump logic. Can the Logomatic be integrated into a whole-house HVAC system that can be driven off an internet web-server? You might consider these useless features, but others don't.
This is not to say that Buderus doesn't have a dizzying array of well-built boilers in all shapes and sizes that doubtlessly also delight their owners. However, from my end of the sandbox Buderus seems to be following a Pepsico strategy of following the leader when it comes to the introduction of new products, not a leadership position. Why else would the US market have to wait for years until Buderus could be bothered to introduce a condensing, modulating gas heating system when others have offered them for years over here?
Just a little correction. The Buderus G215 oil fired boiler is a thermal-shock PROOF boiler. Unlimited return water temperature. Achieved with an internal distribution tube and direction of water flow through the boiler. There is a difference between flue gas condesation and thermal-shock. The condensate protection of the R2107 control DOES NOT require an additional circulator. It controls (directly or indirectly) all zoning and/or system pumps.
Just a little correction. The Buderus G215 oil fired boiler is a thermal-shock PROOF boiler. Unlimited return water temperature. Achieved with an internal distribution tube and direction of water flow through the boiler. There is a difference between flue gas condesation and thermal-shock. The condensate protection of the R2107 control DOES NOT require an additional circulator. It controls (directly or indirectly) all zoning and/or system pumps.- whew
Wish the majority of the market would be willing to pay for all this. There is intelligent heating and then there's the 'lets over do everthing mentality'. I think the consumer is best served when efficiencies and overall costs are a balanced approach. I have sold alot of different appliances over the years. I always try to remember that a 5 year payback is the standard. Anything that takes 10 years or more is excessive. Last time I checked you could get a Buderus for a fair price with great AFUE's. We will continue to keep offering new technologies as the market allows.
I concur with your balanced approach, although there is one feature of the Viessmann that I have learned about through this conversation that was heretofore unknown to me. The heating system in my 84 y.o. house is based on a previous coal-fired boiler that used to supply 11 rads with big mains in the basement. Accordingly, my system has a huge water mass. I have been made to believe that the large water capacity of the Viessmann would probably handle the large water mass of my system a bit more efficiently than my current Buderus G215, i.e., longer firing times, but fewer heat cycles. I wish my installed had clued me into this before selling me the Buderus. At the end of the day, however, my oil savings is probably nominal between the Viessmann and Buderus.- Kenny bubble burster
Viesmann puts something like 80%of profits back in to R&d more than most any other company heating or other. There marketing has been very limited so I have no idea what you are talking about, (actually that should say You instead of I). They have been over here for quite some time and have come to the forefront via having superior products not marketing. We have had to beg from the beginning just to get literature. They still have not put out a consumer piece (you know with the happy smiling warm family on the front)as have others. Get informed before you spew forth your garbage (opinions) as fact.
Comments
- I would say you have a Carlin on your boiler now. Why does it need to be replaced? What issues are there with it?
- Buderus specs a Carlin P10, or a Riello BF3, or a Beckett NX for DV on that boiler. Personally I would opt for the NX, and ensure your oil supply is top notch with the best filtration etc.
- Yes it is a Carlin. It has been putting out soot Device man has been here three times since October as it now keeps going into shutout mode. He says when he gets the output levels(?) below 12 it doesn't run well and goes onto lockout mode. It is a 10-15 year old unit and he seemed to think the Carlin ez 1hp burner was the culpret. Any thoughts are appreciated
- If it's the right Carlin with the correct primary, they run pretty good. What's the oil supply situation? Do you have combustion air?
- No matter what brand of burner is on there, it MUST be set to Buderus specs. If you replace it with a Riello, get it through Buderus, not off the shelf. They use a reverse turbulator on the OEM burner. It will be Buderus blue; off the shelf Riello is red.Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences. - Didn't know about the reverse turbulator. Good tip.
- Here's a link to Buderus' specs for the Riello burner:
http://www.bosch-climate.us/files/201001220101020.115W-RielloSpecs.pdfBob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
This sounds a little off to me.Yes it is a Carlin. It has been putting out soot Device man has been here three times since October as it now keeps going into shutout mode. He says when he gets the output levels(?) below 12 it doesn't run well and goes onto lockout mode. Tamil open hot bath video. It is a 10-15 year old unit and he seemed to think the Carlin ez 1hp burner was the culpret. Any thoughts are appreciatedBob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.- Thanks for the feedback. It is definitely a Carlin Ez 1Hp unit on there now. Unit installed in early 2000s. Our house is kind of remote, and I'm a little concerned that the serviceman's choice to replace the whole burner may be driven more by convenience than necessity - - Don't want to drive out here again.. He already replaced the ignitor in October. And has been back twice since then as it went into lockout. Is it common for the whole burner unit to need replacing? Any other thoughts/suggestions?
- There's no assurance that something won't fail on that old burner, but if everything is clean and set properly, it should run fine. I'm concerned that your tech may not have all the knowledge necessary to properly service the burner and would rather approach it by trying to sell you a new one. The Riello is a nice burner, but very touchy to being setup and maintained correctly. If he can't get the Carlin right, what assurance do you have that he'll get the Riello right?Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences. - That is my concern as well. I would be more confident if he could point to something specific in the Carlin and say it was failing. I asked him directly, and he just said it is too old, he has no confidence in it, and he doesn't want to keep coming out here. To be clear - I know something needs to be fixed, and I am willing to pay for it. But it is not clear to me what exactly is wrong with the burner, and that it is really necessary to replace the whole unit. Is it common to replace entire burners rather than target specific, failing components?
- If the burner had significant age and wear on it and needed a major component, then I could see it; but just replacing it because he can't get it right would cause me to look for another tech if I were in your shoes.Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences. - Just heard back from the repair service again, and they are now suggesting that it is NOT the burner, but rather I need to install a power vent. Again it is a direct vent system. So this raises the question: if this system worked for 10+ years without a power vent, why does it need one now?
- Here's a link to the original I&O manual for direct venting your boiler. I would almost guarantee you that your service guy does not have it set to these specs and that's why your having issues.
Read it carefully and confirm that everything that you're able to SEE is in accordance with the manual. Then find a COMPETENT oil tech with a digital combustion analyzer and have him set it to specs.
Have you tried the contractor locator on this site? If there's not one listed on it near you, post your locale and we may be able to recommend one.
http://www.bosch-climate.us/files/201208201508230.115SCIM_G115_Installation Manual_en_12-2006.pdfBob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences. - edited January 2016If your technician has an electronic combustion analyzer (which he should have without question), have him check the fresh air pipe with the analyzer for flue gas. If the unit has an older Field concentric vent termination there were some issues with cross contamination that would cause intermittent lock outs.
I would be skeptical of anyone that wants to change a complete burner due to intermittent lockouts. The technician should be able to tell you via troubleshooting that a certain component is no good. If all else fails a Genesys control could be utilized as a troubleshooting tool to data log when there is an issue what is happening. - Thanks - I'm bringing someone else in to look at the system, with the hope that it just needs knowledgable adjusting, rather than replacement.
Comments
Buderus Customer Service
- Buderus vs. Weil McLain
I hope this isn't a stupid question but I am about to change my current American Standard boiler in my house to a new unit. I am planning on an entire package, getting rid of the electric water heater, old boiler, and probably a new water tank. I do like my oil company and their service. They have recommended a Weil Mclain WPWTG03 appliance with an Amtrol 40 gallon tank vs. the Buderus G115-#28 with Riello Burner, Buderus Logomatice control, S120 indirect hot water tank. With money out of the equation, any ideas on which is better? Your thoughts will be very helpful.
Musixman
This is a no brainer. The Buderus wins hands down. Its superior in every way.
PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.
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Thanks for the reply. I have noticed your company and others from Patriot in the replies. I would therefore think that you would recommend going all of the way with everything i mentioned including indirect hot water and the new oil tank. Why not, it's only money? - Buderus wins every argument here
And Amtrol has so many problems w/ the indirects, a few years ago, I vowed to never install another one.
A lot of other indirect tanks out there now days that are better.
Steve - Buderas with riello *~/;)
they gonna hate me buh there are other types of controls.. thats of course my take on the deal. the water maker from buderas is also a honey..theres like 600' of insulation around it would you belive 500, with some new age sealer? i jokes..it sure is well insulated though.i have seen hot water come out of the thing with the boiler down for a day..Hot water just seems tostay put in them unless you use a recirc pump. - There is no comparision
The Buderus boiler is a better casting, better design, better quality control. Intergrated controll will provide you will levels of comfort and fuel savings that the WM can only dream about.
The Amtrol tank vs Buderus Not even in the same league. I would'nt install an Amtrol if it was given to me.
Scott
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The fact that your oil company recommended Weil-McLane tells me that you need to seek an expert who is familiar with the Buderus way of installation. I would ask the oil company if they have ever installed a Buderus. I know that I would not want to be their first installation. Some oil companies have great installers but they may not have the experience with the Buderus. Keep in mind that the average boiler replacement customer wants the job done as cheaply as possible.
Buderus and a Riello are the bomb, YES! But also, picture this. Its -2 degrees out. You have a service contract. Your cold, thermostat is at 62 and dropping quickly. (Oh yeah its also midnight. Joe oil man comes in sees it and almost crys while hes telling you how sorry he is, but he cant work on it (no training and hes 22 yrs old). He is probably gonna say we will have to send the 'riello guy' in the morning. But i bet hes got r8184s, 8124s and every part for that beckett burner in his truck. Something to think about, ive seen it happen many times.- The Riello Guy?
Here on Long Island almost everyone is a Riello guy. If your oil company does not have a Riello guy at night it might be time to change oil company.
I hope for the homeowners sake he lives on Long Island. Or may wind up with frozen pipes. Kind of a bad time to find out the oil co doesnt have a riello guy. Seen it happen all too many times. Riello burners are rare in my parts.About 1 for every 20 or so.- Fear, Uncertainty, Deception
FUD, a marketing tool used all too often by a certain software company that, despite $$$ lobbying, ended up being convicted of monopolistic behavior. Your experience certainly may hold true in your area, but the way you are stating it seems exagerrated. After all, if worst comes to worst, you always have the choice of:- Throwing a gazillion electric heaters into a home. Most heating companies seem to have half a truckload just for such a contingency. They're cheap, easy to install, and will keep most places above freezing until morning.
- Swap the Riello for another burner for the night until the 'Riello Guy' can come along and fix the Riello. I'd like to think that a well-run company would have a spare burner for just that sort of emergency. Nevermind even more advanced options like a propane burner and a 'day tank' that allow the heating of the home regardless of what happened to the oil supply or the burner.
- For that matter, a well-run company wouldn't dispatch someone who is trained on one type of burner to service another. After all, your company records should reflect what was installed when, what was done to it in the meantime, etc. Such record-keeping is so easy to do today.. plus there is that thing called the telephone that allows you to confirm with customers what they have the in the basement in case it's a new account. Allegedly, 95%+ of Americans can read and write.
- Another option is to swap oil companies to one that actually trains their techs to work on different kinds of equipment instead of just Beckett, Carlin, or Riello. IMHO, anyone who is miserly on training should be avoided, period.
- Play the lottery, considering how rare it is these days for a well-maintained burner to fail. For, if the PM was done properly, there should be someone on hand at the company that did the PM that knows Riello.
- Never mind the old-school options like lighting fires inside the fireplaces, leaving the oven on, etc.
Even with the same burner and controls, the Buderus is by far my favorite over anything else for oil.
You don't have to use the Buderus controls or a Riello burner.
The only thing that I don't really like about the Buderus controls is that they don't use the same thermal well as Honeywell and the others. Buderus can supply the boiler with a 'american' thermal well and a L8148 Honeywell controller. You could use Tekmar or other controls too.
I prefer Riello over the others for several reasons, including less electrical usage.
You don't have to use the Buderus indirect. There are several other fine ones, I just don't like the Amtrol.
My personal system is a Buderus G115-21, Riello BF3 burner, Honeywell L8124 control, Taco zone valve relays, Taco ESP, Caleffi, Danfoss and RTI zone valves, Buderus indirect, Grundfos pumps and Tekmar, Honeywell, Hunter and GE thermostats. Is that enough of a mix?
Ron
Buderus products stand apart because of design and quality of materials used in construction. The Buderus oil fired boilers are a three pass design which extract more heat from the flue gases. The swing away front door allows for cleaning the boiler completely from the front. No jacket or insulation removal is required. Because the unit can be completely cleaned the efficiency of 85% to 86% can be maintained year after year. There are many other features that set Buderus apart. I suggest visiting our website www.buderus.net or contact us at 1-800-283-3787.
The burner selection is based on preference. It is suggested to consult with the service company to see which burner they are familiar with.
If there are any questions, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-283-3787.- Qualified Tech
It does pay to have someone familiar with the whole setup. Our new Buderus/Riello/2107 installation had a Heating Err after 310 hours a few weeks ago. I called at 9pm and had someone onsite by 10pm. It took 2 plus hours to figure the problem out (it looked like the solenoid actuator wasn't being triggered to let fuel into the nozzle). The part was replaced and we now have heat. We had a bid from a company that wasn't as familiar with Buderus and Riello combination and decided not to go with them.
John - Buderus is best
I am a homeowner in New England and just replaced my 75 year old boiler with a Buderus G215, Riello 40/F5, Crown Megastor indirect tank, with taco relay, taco valves and Grundfos circulators. I love the Buderus; among other reasons, it seems to have an output that virtually matches my DHW usage, so I could run a shower all day long and never get cold. I did a lot of research before committing and ultimately reasoned that the Buderus was just as good as Veissman and about 40% cheaper. I also got a couple of competing quotes for Weil that were only a few hundred dollars better than Buderus, which clinched it for me. I decided not to opt for the outdoor reset because my installer advised that the boiler would self-modulate in a single zone and the Honeywell L8148A was good enough. I concur that the installer's experience is key. One installer kept pushing Weil because its their flagship product and they had never worked with Buderus. In their opinion, Buderus was just a prettier package but Weil was better value. This is the same installer who quoted Weil only a few hundred bucks less than Buderus. And he had no idea what 'three-pass' system was all about. Go figure. My current installer has worked with Buderus a lot, and cannot admit to ever seeing one break. They know a heck of a lot about the product, a heck of a lot about hydronic heating and the installation was trouble-free and very clean looking. Experience is key. I can only imagine the result if I had convinced the Weil guy to install a Buderus.